Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Iron Man/archive2
Iron Man[edit]
Iron Man (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
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- Nominator(s): Thebiguglyalien (talk) 12:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
I'm renominating this two weeks after the previous nomination was archived. I'm feeling confident about its chances, as it managed to reach a rough consensus to promote at 3:1 with another review in progress before failing due to a deadline (I probably should have resolved that by doing some quid pro quos to get early reviews like most nominators do, so that's on me). Most of the problems raised by the lone oppose !vote should be addressed per my replies in the previous FAC before it was archived. I justified not acting on the remaining ones, which were largely style preferences or things that I and other reviewers disagreed with. Since the last nomination, I've made two changes: I spent a few minutes addressing the remaining concerns that were cut off when it was archived, and I reverted a few instances of copyediting that I had done during the nomination, as I felt they were detrimental to the article.
I think it's in pretty good shape now, and I look forward to any further feedback! Thebiguglyalien (talk) 12:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
- PanagiotisZois, Aoba47, Premeditated Chaos, David Fuchs: Since all of you commented on the short length of the legacy section, I've tried taking a different approach and started looking for sources about more specific stories (despite my philosophy to avoid handpicking sources whenever possible). Do any of you have thoughts about combining several "top Iron Man stories" lists to comment on which were the most well-received? The ones I found from major pop culture websites are: IGN, IGN(2), Slashfilm, Den of Geek, and GamesRadar. If you're all okay with this method of sourcing, would you consider all of these sufficiently high quality to include? Also, Den of Geek is the only one to cover the worst Iron Man stories, so would there be weight concerns there if that alone were used to cover poorly received stories? I feel that there would be, but I've yet to find any other
- I did not receive a notification for this ping. I believe that is because the comment was left unsigned. It would probably be best to try and ping them again. This seems like a good idea, and I do not have any issues with the proposed citations. They would be appropriate for a FA. That being said, I would also like to hear from the other editors about this, and I would trust their opinions on it. Apologies if I already asked this in the previous FAC, but have you looked through any newspaper sources? There may be some useful resources there on how the character was viewed prior to the internet. Aoba47 (talk) 23:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Fixing ping. PanagiotisZois, Premeditated Chaos, David Fuchs Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:12, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not entirely sure what prose you're intending to draw from the above sources, but for the purposes of citing critic opinions I think they're appropriate. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 00:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- For me at least, all the sources are appropriate for an FA article. You could synthesize them to indicate the most well-received Iron Man stories. As for the "worst" ones... I'm not sure that's soemthing that should be included, primarily because you'd be arguing a given story arc was viewed as bad based solely on just one source.
- I do agree with Aoba47 that using something like newspapers.com might be useful for pre-2003 comics-related stuff, but I also understand it would be a pretty tall order to shift through decades worth of material, so simply using the 5 aforementioned, online sources is all right. PanagiotisZois (talk) 18:27, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've added another paragraph of reception based on these sources. I don't know if it's what the article needed or not, but I'll leave that for the reviewers to decide. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 02:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- All right. I've checked the new material. I think it works. I do like how that section is to a certain degree based on chronological order, detailing aspects of the character in the 60s and 70s, then discussing some of his storylines from the late 70s to the 2000s, and then discussin how the MCU in 2008 and after affected response to the character. I do also appreciate that the section doesn't just say "X storyline was well-received", but discussed how Iron Man is depicted. PanagiotisZois (talk) 10:37, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with PanagiotisZois. It looks good to me. Aoba47 (talk) 00:27, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Support from PanagiotisZois[edit]
Resolved comments from Panagiotis Zois
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Happy to see this article being nominated again. Continuing from where my previous review ended, I'll start with the "Characterization" section.
I'll go over the "Themes and motifs" section in its entirety before I post my comments here.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 16:02, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Here are the comments regarding the "Themes and motifs" section.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 18:32, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
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Here are my final comments @Thebiguglyalien:. Partly due to the sections being smaller, there's not much to discuss.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 15:34, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
- PanagiotisZois, I've replied to the final comments. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:30, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
- All right @Thebiguglyalien:. Thank you for addressing my comments and being patient with me and how anal I can be. You have done a wonderful work with this article, and I am happy to support its promotion to featured article status. PanagiotisZois (talk) 23:52, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Support from PMC[edit]
Based on my thorough review at the previous FAC, I am happy to support this article again. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 13:31, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Support from BOZ[edit]
This article has gone through some serious improvements leading up to the last FAC and even moreso during the nomination, so I believe it is in excellent shape now. Also repeating my comments from the last one about hoping this sets a precedent: "There are a great many comic book characters, superheroes having dominated the field for most of the media's existence, that have this kind of potential; right now at GA we currently have Captain America, Joker (character), Norman Osborn, and Spider-Man which have the most potential for FA, and several others that are GA but may not be suitable for FA, and easily dozens of other characters that could be GA or better if someone could find the time and energy to find the sources and basically rewrite them from scratch. Batman and Superman are former FA articles, so it would be nice to see a comics character back up there." BOZ (talk) 05:41, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- Since you've brought it up, I'll take this chance to shoutout Morgan695, who's expressed interest in bringing Captain America to FAC. I did the GA review for their work on Captain America's article, which is what got me into writing comic book character articles and heavily influenced how I approached it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Support from Hawkeye7[edit]
Delightful article. I will confess that I haven't read an issue of Iron Man published since the turn of the century. My only comment is that you mention Steve Ditko's brief run, but there is no mention of Gene Colan (aka Adam Austin). While the article says that the switch from Communist villains occurred in response to the failing war in Vietnam, I always thought it was the change from Heck to Colan. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:37, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- I wasn't too worried about cataloguing every artist that drew the character, but Colan is a good call. I've added a sentence for him, and for good measure one for George Tuska as well. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:10, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks! Pleased to support. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
I was wondering if David Fuchs, who opposed the nomination the last time, would like to review it again. FrB.TG (talk) 14:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think my issues from the last FAC remain, but it doesn't appear to be a majority view. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 13:37, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
Image review[edit]
Unfortunately, I will not be able to do a full prose review for this FAC, but I still wanted to help out here. For clarity, I participated in the previous FAC. My comments are below:
- File:Iron Man (circa 2018).png has a clear caption and purpose in the article and a complete WP:FUR. The WP:ALT text is appropriate. I voiced some reservations about the infobox image choice in the previous FAC as I was concerned that the external pieces of armor could potentially confuse readers who are not as familiar with the character design, but it is not a major issue, especially when I do not have a clear alternative in mind.
- File:Errol Flynn1.jpg also has a clear caption and purpose in the article. I would recommend adding WP:ALT text. It may be helpful to note in the caption what year the photo was taken to more readily provide that context for readers, but that is not required. Everything looks appropriate on the licensing and Wikimedia Commons side of things.
- File:7.24.19BrianMichaelBendisByLuigiNovi2.jpg looks good to me. It has a clear purpose in the article and the licensing and permission aspects look good. Again, I would recommend adding ALT text. Adding the year the photo was taken could be helpful, but again, it is not a requirement.
- Both File:Tales of Suspense 39.jpg and File:Iron Man's armors.jpg have clear purposes in the article and appropriate WP:ALT text. I believe that both instances of non-free media are justified as they illustrated points that readers may not fully understand through the prose alone. The WP:FUR are complete for both,
but I do have a small comment for the second image. The source link (here) does not display the image and instead has a screen saying the original image is no longer available so that should be revised. - Everything with File:Robert Downey Jr 2014 Comic Con (cropped).jpg checks out. It has a clear purpose in the article as illustrated with the caption. I am a bit confused on why the summary has non-English text (as in why is it there at all and why is it before the English text), but it is not a major issue.
I hope this image review is helpful. I only have quite nitpick-y suggestions. Two of the images need WP:ALT text while one of the non-free images needs to have the source link updated. Once both are done, I will be more than happy to pass this image review. Aoba47 (talk) 01:31, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Aoba47: I checked the ComicsAlliance source for the last non-free image, and the image is actually there. With the exception of the cover image saying that it's not available, all of the other images from the various comics—including Iron Man #258.1—are still up.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 13:03, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the clarification. That makes sense to me, and I see what you mean now. My only remaining point would be the WP:ALT text then. Aoba47 (talk) 16:24, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Support from Igordebraga[edit]
Support Well-written article, and my one objection from last time (that the fictional biography ended with Infamous Iron Man) has been fixed, so seems good for promotion. igordebraga ≠ 16:33, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Source review[edit]
Why do #201 and #202 use a section title rather than a page number? It seems like most sources are prominent publishers and authors. I wonder about DK (publisher) though. One major omission is that I don't see any individual comics/issues being cited, or am I wrong? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- The #201 and #202 sources are reference works that use entries instead of page numbers, so those are the titles of those entries. You're correct that there are no individual issues cited, and I don't think I'd consider it ready for FAC if there were. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 07:01, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- That raises some questions about completeness, though. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Would you care to elaborate? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:06, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- That raises some questions about completeness, though. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC)